Thoughts on "The Sun Also Rises"

Excerpt from The Sun Also Rises by Hemingway: Chapter 2, page 19


"'Listen, Jake,' he leaned forward on the bar. 'Don't you ever get the feeling that all your life is going by and you're not taking advantage of it? Do you realize you've lived nearly half the time you have to live already?'
'Yes, every once in a while.'
'Do you know that in about thirty-five years more we'll be dead?'
'What the hell, Robert,' I said. 'What the hell.'
'I'm serious.'
'It's one thing I don't worry about,' I said.
'You ought to.'
'I've had plenty to worry about one time or other. I'm through worrying.'
'Well, I want to go to South America.'
'Listen, Robert, going to another country doesn't make any difference. I've tried all that. You can't get away from yourself by moving from one place to another. There's nothing to that.'
'But you've never been to South America.'
'South America hell! If you went there the way you feel now it would be exactly the same. This is a good town. Why don't you start living your life in Paris?'"
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This passage I believe introduces a lot of central things of the novel: characterization of Jake and Cohn, the "lost generation", the idea of escaping, and problems, and lots of things... The things I've looked at is more what they are talking about.


I think this passage is a bit different from others because usually Jake is just an observer and talks very little with little emotions or ideas that would normally keep a conversation going. But here he voices an opinion, one that is actually quite emotional. I mean, we see that he's tried to get away from himself, and that it's not possible. He also doesn't want to think about living/dying, when he answers Cohn's question about living half the life they've lived already with "what the hell"- and he says it twice. In fact, when he says that "it's the one thing I don't worry about", we know that he doesn't mind dying- it's the living part that he's not so sure about. Also, at the end where he says "why don't you start living your life in Paris?" it's a little ironic, since I'm not really sure he's living his life in Paris, but perhaps it speaks to how he doesn't really care where he lives, or that he lives? I'm not sure.


And Cohn, well, he seems to be having a kind of mid-life crisis, wanting to do something worthwhile. Throughout the novel, I noticed that Cohn is always trying to show his masculinity, or just wanting appreciation. He doesn't care whether he wins any bets or anything, just so long as he is not someone to be pitied or cast aside. So here he wants to go to South America, an idea he got from the Purple Land, where this guy did a lot of memorable things, and he wants to do the same thing. This foreshadows his character in the future. How Cohn lives his life: "all your life is going by and you're not taking advantage of it", is much like everyone else- they are all watching their life go by, and not actually doing anything. What's interesting is that Cohn is the only one who really admits this. Which kind of ties into the lost generation: they are like this.


 Also, what Jake says, "'You can't get away from yourself by moving from one place to another. There's nothing to that.'" is what people do, as a part of the lost generation. Jake meets a lot of people throughout the novel, sometimes small characters for a short time period. Each of these characters are different, and react differently, but it seems as if they are all avoiding one part of their lives. For instance, Harris, the person who Jake and Bill fish with, won't leave the comfort of his fishing place and go to the city. He's avoiding a lot of contact with people. All the main characters are doing the same thing. Cohn is ignoring the fact that he is wanted by practically everyone, and Brett flees from commitment- for example, after she's done with Romero she leaves him immediately, and goes to and from Mike.


So I guess this passage is different because there's a lot of talking explicitly about things- rarely does Jake (or anyone for that matter) come out and say things clearly about how people are. I find it intriguing that it becomes a whole lot clearer and more important after you've read the book. What dya think?


When James says that he disagrees, and that Jake talks emotionally because he is comfortable with Cohn, much like the stream scene, I have to admit I do not quite see it. James says that "Jake feels superior to Cohn, and therefore he feels comfortable around him, and able to express himself", but if he does feel superior to Cohn, then why is this the only time that Jake talks explicitly about his own emotions? I do not think that Jake does this often, and also that Cohn is disliked because people envy him. Cohn comes from a rich family, and is strong physically- because of this people pick on him for the smallest reasons: that he's a Jew, or that he's slightly annoying. And this is why Cohn is trying to show his masculinity (not in this scene, but throughout the novel). Everyone criticizes him, so he feels the need to justify himself. I agree that Cohn "is just being himself", but that by being himself he needs to justify himself. I remember we said once in class that Jake is strong mentally but weak physically, and that Cohn is the opposite. So Cohn is weak mentally, and I think has little confidence and a sensitive ego- when Jake once called him a name, Cohn made him take it back. And Cohn hangs onto Jake because Jake is the only one who doesn't say anything that bad to Cohn out loud. While Jake may show him "in a bad light", I do not think that he is comfortable around him but envious, as Cohn has the physical strength that he lacks. I do agree, however, that "he feels that Cohn doesn't deserve that masculinity."
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I also looked at James' blog about an excerpt from Chapter 3 (Click here to see James' blog)

What I think is important about the excerpt are several ideas that it has:

• There is a constant mention of ethnicity and race in the novel: everyone has one, and many are introduced right away with them. As if it labels them. So this mention of Flemmish, and it having some importance as to whether Georgette would like Jake is similar to what happens throughout the novel. Everyone judges others based on their race, among other things.
• This is pretty much the only time Jake "goes out" with someone, and so this is interesting- because here it looks like he wanted the company, and not an actual date. Also, when he says "a vague sentimental idea that it would be nice to eat with some one. It was a long time since I had dined with a poule, and I had forgotten how dull it could be", it looks like he's already starting to regret it. He forgot that for him, people tire him and cause him more trouble than he wants. (Contrast of mood between city and fishing expedition)
• "We had another bottle of wine and Georgette made a joke. She smiled and showed all her bad teeth, and we touched glasses."
• - In the novel Jake always describes at least one quirk that people have. For instance, Brett always wrinkles her eyes and says "rot" a lot. Then there was that lady that kept taking off her glasses, cleaning them, and then putting them back on. And Montoya always pats Jake on the shoulder in an embarrassed way. But why does he notice these things?
• "Its a shame you're sick. We get on well. What's the matter with you, anyway?"  --> When Georgette says this, it's how Brett is too.
  "I got hurt in the war," I said.
  "Oh, that dirty war."
• even though Georgette didn't fight in the war, she has the same opinion as Jake.
• "We would probably have gone on and discussed the war and agreed that is was in reality a calamity for civilisation, and perhaps would have been better avoided. I was bored enough."
• It's interesting, because here he seems to equate war talk with boredom. I'm not really sure what he's getting at, though, but it seems important.

James had some interesting things to say about the excerpt:

He said, "He only says what he feels is necessary, once again giving us an insight into his character. He is a journalist, and therefore feels that there is no need to mince words. He feels that you just need to get the point across to the reader, or in this case, the listener. " And here James hits a point throughout the novel- he never says more than what is necessary. For me, I think the details for Jake help him feel he has a bit of control over his life, and help him detach himself emotionally, a trick he probably has to use when writing as a journalist. In this excerpt, I think this can tie into how he always notices tiny little quirks/faults in people. When Georgette has that smile with her "bad teeth", he could be noticing all these details as an effort to detach himself, from people. He likes company, which is why he goes out with Georgette in the first place, but he doesn't want to get too involved, so he keeps repeating that people can be "dull" and boring.

So I think that this passage is important because as James says, it "provides large amounts of characterisation", but also because it has all these little things that are the same throughout the novel. James mentions one thing that I'm not sure I understand, talking about the vague sentimental idea Jake has: "This shows how he still tries and keeps some semblance of his life before the war, and that he wants to keep living." In the rest of the novel, Jake hangs out with people (at least in my opinion) to lose himself and his problems and just become a part of the crowd; this is why he likes to work and do what everyone else is doing. While I do agree that the vague sentimental idea may be something of the past before the war, I can't remember him ever doing this again. If we keep in mind that Jake never brings anyone out again to hang out with, then this would not be a sign that he wants to keep living- almost the exact opposite. However, I do not think Jake has a suicidal tendency, only that he stops trying to go back to the past later on. He accepts where he is; in the end of the novel things go back to the way they were before- Brett and Mike are back together, Jake is going back to France, but I think his attitude is slightly different. He doesn't try and go back to the way it was before, but just to "go with the flow", if that makes sense.