In class we discussed a lot about the relationship and characterization between Jake and Cohn. Some thought they were similar, and others thought they were the opposite. I can understand both sides; Jake and Cohn are both insecure, both have no purpose. However, Jake and Cohn are also dissimilar in their attitudes, their views of people, and their actions. Someone mentioned how Jake is strong mentally but weak physically, whereas Cohn was easily-manipulated mentally, but physically strong. But why?
The two are quite different, in my opinion. I think the two are put there to contrast the two characters, and reveal the two different perspectives the two have. For instance, in the theme of love, a prevalent idea throughout the novel, Jake never admits he is in love, and he doesn't want to be in love; Cohn on the other hand has married once, had a fiance, and says he is in love with Brett.
Also, on a slight side note, I think Jake is a nice person. And I think Cohn is a bit selfish. For instance, everyone likes Jake; as we said in class, he listens, and he doesn't want to make trouble. So he's nice to everyone, and while he doesn't get attached, he doesn't get angry either. Cohn is the opposite; he doesn't say bad things about each other because he is never really a part of the group, and he wants to be included. He is very attached. Jake is actually the only one who doesn't insult him, except for a few times, in which he takes it back. Everyone Cohn meets at some point scolds him or shunts him. So the two are different around other people as well. While they may both be insecure, Cohn still tries and finds a purpose, while Jake accepts his role of not really having a role. Jake still wishes sometimes, but he pushes it aside, and doesn't complain when nothing happens. Really, I wonder what happens to Cohn at the end of the novel, when he is forced to realize that he is unwanted.
In their pasts, where Cohn was a Princeton student, married, and from a rich Jewish family, and Jake a survivor in the war, they are opposite as well. Jake faced a physical war, while Cohn had a more mental war, dealing with troubles of discrimination, loneliness, and marriage. The two come out of their experiences with different perspectives: Jake pessimistic, critical (on the inside) and detached (on the outside), and Cohn still hopeful for a future (when he wants to go to South America, or falls in love).
Maybe by showing all these differences, yet in the same circumstances, in the same generation with no purpose, Hemingway introduces the idea that the war affected everyone, and that people dealt with it in different ways. I'm not sure.
The two are quite different, in my opinion. I think the two are put there to contrast the two characters, and reveal the two different perspectives the two have. For instance, in the theme of love, a prevalent idea throughout the novel, Jake never admits he is in love, and he doesn't want to be in love; Cohn on the other hand has married once, had a fiance, and says he is in love with Brett.
Also, on a slight side note, I think Jake is a nice person. And I think Cohn is a bit selfish. For instance, everyone likes Jake; as we said in class, he listens, and he doesn't want to make trouble. So he's nice to everyone, and while he doesn't get attached, he doesn't get angry either. Cohn is the opposite; he doesn't say bad things about each other because he is never really a part of the group, and he wants to be included. He is very attached. Jake is actually the only one who doesn't insult him, except for a few times, in which he takes it back. Everyone Cohn meets at some point scolds him or shunts him. So the two are different around other people as well. While they may both be insecure, Cohn still tries and finds a purpose, while Jake accepts his role of not really having a role. Jake still wishes sometimes, but he pushes it aside, and doesn't complain when nothing happens. Really, I wonder what happens to Cohn at the end of the novel, when he is forced to realize that he is unwanted.
In their pasts, where Cohn was a Princeton student, married, and from a rich Jewish family, and Jake a survivor in the war, they are opposite as well. Jake faced a physical war, while Cohn had a more mental war, dealing with troubles of discrimination, loneliness, and marriage. The two come out of their experiences with different perspectives: Jake pessimistic, critical (on the inside) and detached (on the outside), and Cohn still hopeful for a future (when he wants to go to South America, or falls in love).
Maybe by showing all these differences, yet in the same circumstances, in the same generation with no purpose, Hemingway introduces the idea that the war affected everyone, and that people dealt with it in different ways. I'm not sure.
lots of insight. you seem to imply that Jake has more knowledge of his role in society than Cohn. Jake realizes that he is useless and Cohn is still searching and hoping for something. in a way i agree that jake is wiser but Cohn must have insight that jake doesnt have. Jake has seen war but Cohn has seen marriage and divorce . Cohn has gone through s few unsuccesful relationships but has expierienced more than jake has in that sense.he must have some insight in some sense, and while you say jake is a listener, and he does listen, i dont think he really considers what people are saying becuase his judgements are the most potent through out the book. im not quite sure what you mean by cohn as selfish. he seems quite a pitful charcter to me but he doesnt seem selfish, could you explain more with that?
ReplyDeleteWhen Bill and Jake go fishing, Bill sings this song about Pity and Irony. I thought that these two characteristics were ones that just about everyone in the novel had. Irony because the judge each other all the time (no one ever likes Cohn, for instance) and yet they all have their own faults too, and pity because they pity themselves for their situation. Brett pities herself for being in love, and does nothing to change it. Cohn pities himself because he knows no one really likes him- and yet he doesn't think as to why that is. It's more than just his racial background- they are willing to accept him, but then there is always something "off" about him- I say Cohn is selfish because he is very attached to people not because he really cares about them but because he doesn't want to be left out. That's how I looked at it. And I think Jake does not judge others as much as others do; he does not say he dislikes Cohn, unlike everyone else who clearly states so to Cohn's face. Also, when he is feeling uncharitable towards Cohn, he realizes he has no reason to dislike him, and tries to control his dislike. And, sometimes his judgements are correct; he notices a lot of things, and while he has opinions about a lot of things, his very journalistic descriptive way of seeing things limits his judgement of others.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if Cohn has seen marriage and divorce, why do you think he is the most opportunistic and hopeful for love? I've never really understood that part.
Adrienne, you made some very valid points and observations of which I Hope I can add to without being too repetitive. Your comments certainly started a discussion in my head. I feel the central theme of this novel is a voyage of self discovery for the characters involved.They take a trip but this trip has greater significance than just a family vacation. The story is about the masculine act of male bonding but almost in a primitive jungle type of level, it shows how men are full of competitiveness. They all have egos and are
ReplyDeletetrying to outdo each other and prove they are king of the jungle. Now we add to the mix, one lone attractive but callous female who they are all trying to mate with. She uses the men in her life and discards them at will. Does friendship endure or are relationships lost forever?
You mentioned post war. Yes, everyone coming out of this novel is suffering from some post war mental trauma whether they actively fought or not. They all have their demons or crosses to bear both physical and emotional, and each character deals with this in their own way. Despite the war Cohn has issues of being controlled by the women in his life and battles with ant semantic feelings that still weigh heavily on him. He turns to boxing to bring out his emotions in the ring in college as he cannot express himself outside of the ring. Interestingly while Jake in the first chapter states that Cohn only fights in the ring, his emotions and betrayal by Brett leads him to a violent outburst against Mike, Romero and Jake. Perhaps this his way of finally healing and recovering from what troubles him, a therapy of sorts. Jake on the other hand deals with his lost love Brett and his emasculation of impotency due to a war injury. He is probably more emotionally scarred than he cares to admit. Our hapless hero has to watch from the sidelines as his lady love romances his friends and is always there to pick up the pieces and be a shoulder to cry on. He can never heal or come to terms with his life until he confronts Brett, ditches her and moves on. Being the doormat she wipes her feet on is self defeating and serves no purpose than to torture him. He is suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome and needs time to heal and become the man he really is and come to terms with his impotency. After all is he not the real hero so a real man who fought a battle and sacrificed for his country and freedom? Are not boxers and bull fighters just pseudo fighters, no more than cocks having a fight for a bloody show in a circus like atmosphere. He needs to step out of the sidelines. He needs to take the symbol of watching the bull fight as a spectator and literally take the bull by its horns.
It is not the solution for any of the characters to become tight to drown out their sorrows. This drug induced stupor is a false sense of well being that leads to a road of self destruction.
Yes, it is difficult to adjust post years of war but Jake, Cohn and all the other characters need to hold onto hope and survive. After all as Hemingway pit it. THE SUN ALSO RISE!
Bye, Sabrina